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Final voting tallies for proposed amendments to the Constitution

Final voting tallies for the proposed amendments to the constitution of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) as approved by the 219th General Assembly (2010).

Voting results are posted after official word is received in the Office of the General Assembly from presbyteries that have voted. Waiting for official word can create a lag between when a presbytery votes and when the results are posted.

Approval of Belhar required 116 affirmative votes;
all other amendments required 87 affirmative votes.

FINAL

      Affirm. Neg. No Action
Part 1 (PDF) 10-1 New Form of Government 90 81  
Part 2 (PDF)
10-2 Confession of Belhar 108 63  
Part 3 (PDF)
10-A Gifts and Requirements—On Amending G-6.0106b 97 74  
  10-B Removing Stated Clerk or Clerk of Session—On Amending G-9.0203b 165 4  
  10-C Requiring Sexual Misconduct Policy—On Amending G-9.0404e 165 4  
  10-D Nominating Committees—On Amending G-9.0801a 164 5  
  10-E Presbytery Rolls and Registers—On Amending G-11.0407 160
9  
  10-F Certified Christian Educators—On Amending G-11.0407 and G-14.0730 152 17  
  10-G Synod Function—On Amending G-12.0100 165 4  
  10-H Nominations Process—On Amending G-13.0108, G-13.0111a, and G-13.0202b 164 5  
  10-I Prayer Added to Ordination and Installation Services—On Amending W-4.4003, W-4.4004 and W-4.4006 161 8  
  10-J Stay of Enforcement—On Amending D-6.0103 164 4  
  10-K Preliminary Questions—On Amending D-6.0306, D-8.0302, and D-13.0302 167 2  
  10-L Reviewing Work of Investigating Committee—On Amending D-10.0202 168 1
 
  10-M Time Limit—On Amending D-10.0401 131 39  
  10-N Appeal of “Not Guilty” Verdict—On Amending D-13.0102 and D-13.0106 148 22  
  10-O Decision of Permanent Judicial Commission—On Amending D-13.0404 155 14  
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  1. We to easily forget we need to"love the Lord our God with all our heart and soul and our neighbor as ourselves." I think our greatest sin is when we think God agrees with our predjuses, fears, and hate. If we all choose to do our best to love all our neighbors we will will be in world closer to our Lord

    by Herbert Halvers

    October 28, 2014

  2. Voting tallies are posted here after the Office of the General Assembly receives official results from each presbytery that has voted. Some presbyteries are still voting. The cutoff date is July 10, which is one year after the 219th GA adjourned and the date that the approved amendments become part of the PC(USA) Constitution.

    by Sharon Youngs

    June 15, 2011

  3. When will we see the final results of the presbytery votes reported by the cutoff date here?

    by Arthur Ritter

    June 15, 2011

  4. Dean, most presbyteries (unlike mine) split the three parts of the amendment votes, often putting the vote on Belhar later than the votes on NFOG and 10-A through 10-O. Because Belhar, as an amendment to the Book of Confessions, requires a 2/3 vote rather than a simple majority (as do Book of Order amendments), once it hits 58 "nay" votes, it is considered defeated, regardless of how many "yea" votes appear. The text of NFOG passed as it was approved by the 2010 General Assembly (the PDF above). Amendments get voted on as approved by GA, typos and all (as we discovered in 2008).

    by James K

    June 13, 2011

  5. No one has seen fit to explain the difference in vote tally's between Belhar and the rest of the vote tally's I can't answer wish some one would I don't like after the fact Oh we forgot to count this., Also if New fog passes is it adopted as written or will someone rewrite it to satisfy personal choice?

    by Dean Bartlett

    June 11, 2011

  6. Hang in there. Changes can be disruptive, but we have survived for centuries, let's not give up now. Let's not put a period where God has put a comma, God is still speaking to us. Godspeed!

    by L. Johnson

    June 9, 2011

  7. Despite the fact the Session of my church did not vote to support 10-A, I want to point out that all members of the congregation do not agree with the Session. I, for one, am in full support of 10-A.

    by Clara

    June 5, 2011

  8. I've observed some comments about fear in this post and am reminded by scripture that fear isn't necessarily a negative motivation. For example, what is the beginning of wisdom, but the fear of YHWH? Jesus sought to quell his disciples' fear of the Jewish authorities, and perfect love drives out fear. But, as a (not "the") motivation of reverence for the Lord and repentance from sin, scripture doesn't appear to denigrate fear as it appears some are doing on this post. I enjoy the tension in scripture and simply wanted to add this perspective to observe that healthy fear may have it's place in the maturation of faith.

    by Thomas

    June 5, 2011

  9. Is there any understanding of why so many fewer presbyteries have voted on Belhar than on the other measures? Is the timeline longer on this, since in order to pass it would also have to be approved again at the next General Assembly?

    by Stephen Hamilton Wright

    June 2, 2011

  10. This desire to return to biblical mandates would prevent many of our current Pastors, who could pass muster with G-6, from holding office. How many divorced and remarried ministers do we have? The Bible discusses this, but we have reinterpreted this. We have interpreted the words of Paul regarding Women, and say what we read is not what was really meant, we must get behind the words on the page. The one thing G-6 worried about was what was going on in or outside of marriage, and with whom. We don't seem to be so quick to remove or prevent embezzelers, adulterers, gluttons, abusers, ostentatious pastors, idolatrous (mainly of themselves and their accomplishments), tyrranical pastors from serving. I am not sure many of us want them to serve, and when they are found we bend over backwards trying to keep them in the church and in office. They are not more or less destructive than others. Sin is Sin, as has been said so many times here. There is no hierarchy in sin, but we pretend that there is. Do you feel called? Yes! Do you have gifts? Yes! Does the community confirm those? Yes! Have you met all the exam and educational requirements? Yes! Are you GLBT? Yes. And we respond then God is not calling you! Where is the listening to the Spirit, where is the willingness to trust that indeed God may be calling that individual and that God is saying, "See I am doing a new thing!" With one side of our mouth we say Sovereignty of God, and with the other, "We know better than God." How many of our officers use birth control? The Bible is clear that "spilling of seed" is not acceptable. This is a process for bringing in new life and not recreation. We are not clear about what we really want.

    by Proud Presbyterian

    June 1, 2011

  11. @Mr. John Bush - I appreciate your comment, but I would encourage you to re-look at our Presbyterian Heritage, especially around the Old School, New School split. We have gone back to a traditional way of doing things which contributed to a split in the Denomination. We remember slavery as a cause, but forget the ordination issues then which called for national standards to lead the church forward. What we have accomplished by adding 10-A and removing G-6.0106b is we have established a double standard with regards to sexual practice, not sexual orientation. If this issue was truly about same sex couples in monogamous relationships being able to serve in leadership, then marriage needed to be redefined, and G-6 would have been a call to purity in sexual practice to all, homosexual or heterosexual. We have yet again gone about change in an illogical way which (in my opinion) will lead to the same outcome as the history we did not study and have called ourselves to repeat.

    by robmcclelland

    May 31, 2011

  12. I want to express my thanks to John Bush for a very clear and concise comment - and say that I agree with it 100%. Presbyteries and Sessions should weigh people on their merits and gifts - like we did for so long - not on ANY perceived or conceived automatic rejection. Let the governing bodies own up to their responsibilities. Thank you.

    by Dana Bruce Stout

    May 26, 2011

  13. Obviously the passionate reactions, pro and con, in re the outcome of the voting on G-6.0106b reflect differences in biblical interpretation. God never promised that my particular exegesis of Scriptural passages would always triumph. But Christ did passionately pray that Christians stay united, "so that the world may know that you have sent me" (John 17:20-23). Tragically, in virtually every land where Reformed Christianity has spread, Presbyterians have proven to be "like hickory wood--tough to break, but they surely split easily!" The best attitude that all in our beloved PC(USA) should assume now, whether progressive/liberal or traditional/conservative or loyal-middle, should be that of prayerful, loving humility and watchful waiting. In fact, we can find no greater exemplar of this than wise, saintly Rabbi Gamaliel (Acts 5:38-39): "If this plan . . . is of human origin, it will fail; but if it is of God . . . you may even be found fighting against God!" As one who affirms with the Apostles' Creed the virginal conception of Jesus, I nevertheless greatly appreciate the fact that after the Auburn Affirmation amid the conflict over its denial by Harry Emerson Fosdick, those who did not shamelessly go into schism (resulting sadly, as always, in still more schism and splinters from splinters) from the old PCUSA, discovered surprising new life, energy, united vision, and enthusiasm for worldwide mission as they manifested agape for one another and obeyed the Great Commission.

    by Dwyn Mounger

    May 26, 2011

  14. What most here apparently do not understand is that for the first time in 40 years our decisions about ordination are not driven by a preoccupation with SEX. Now, sessions & presbyteries must do their work -- as they did for 450 years before 6b came along --and deal with each candidate (whether for elder, deacon or MWS) as who that person is. Most of the responses here are still preoccupied with sex. That's sad, but I hope that as the PCUSA grows into this new/old way of doing things all of us can come to focus on the whole person as we consider candidates for ordiantion.

    by John Bush

    May 26, 2011

  15. I believe the matter of dispute over 10-A is not because of being conservative or liberal or FEAR. Some calls it evangelicals’ view and etc.!! It’s matter of Biblical views. The problem with 10-A is that we give the church authority over the Bible. This is not a Reformed belief. 10-A is the matter of institutional unity verse purity; church authority verses Bible authority; church vision verses church’s testimony, culture’s freedom verses spiritual freedom, pleasing man verses pleasing God. We need to remind ourselves that church members are sanctified and are separated from the world. This holiness and separation is not against inclusiveness. I agree that FEAR is the big motivation and factor in rejecting 10-A. But, with this explanation that fear from God is the motivation, not fear from man.

    by Edward W. Eissabake

    May 19, 2011

  16. I for one am very proud of our denomination as it moves towards a fuller inclusiveness and welcoming of everyone into the family of Christ. I also believe that, as with most 'comservative' stances, the primary motivation is neither custom nor philosophy nor belief but FEAR, pure and simple. I always pray that conservatives -- whether in our church or in society at large -- will be blessed with freedom from their fears. Thank God our church is showing more and more the faithful , bold fearlessness that is one of our greatest graces from the Lord.

    by Adrian Vance

    May 18, 2011

  17. This bickering has to stop. This is a reason why people leave faith. God has brought everyone who believes to this failt. Race, creed, sexuality, gender it does not matter, why should it? Everyone is called to accept the Lord. Everyone sins. That is why Jesus died...for our sins. And just passing judgement on people is sin. Think a fair share of you need to confess after your writings. Why not focus on spreading the word of God? Why bicker about rules of a church? How are any of these rules going to really change what you do on a daily basis? How are these rules going to change spreading the word of God? I am new to the failh I come from a catholic background and have never felt accepted in faith until I walked into my current church and I see people talk about leaving the church over rules...give me a break. I am sure people don't agree with our current government policies correct? Then why not leave America? Or how about people who don't agree with policies at work...why not leave your job? People who talk about leaving just don't get it. It's not about you, it's about the word of the Lord.

    by Vic

    May 18, 2011

  18. My wife's grandfather was a godly and faithful pastor in the PC (U.S.A.) for many years. It is heartbreaking to see the PC (U.S.A), with such a rich history, choosing such a deceptive and destructive path. How can we 'live joyfully under the Lordship of Christ' while living in willful denial and disobedience to Christ's own words? Jesus addresses this in Matthew 7:13-27 and Luke 6:46-49. It seems as if care for the environment has replaced evangelism, and that, to a large degree, social activism is slowly replacing the clear mandate of the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20). Sadly, in many parts of the body of Christ, inclusiveness and "unity" at all costs has been exalted as the pinnacle of Christian spirituality rather than devotion to the word of God, repentance from sin, growth in Christ-likeness, and a life of obedience which produces fruit unto righteousness and holiness. As the effects of this decision begin to unfold, it should drive us to a place of consecration and prayer.

    by Joshua Bridges

    May 17, 2011

  19. For those who are otraged by the vote on ordination let me add some perspective. I truly believe God created all people as they are, and that includes homosexuals. Mounting evidence points to this being a born trait not a learned trait or choice. What is clear is that when we ordain gays we should look at their lives and if they are in loving monogomous relationships then good, as love is from God and love is NEVER wrong. But also that we judge heterosexuals and homosexuals on the same scale when it comes to irresponisble and ungodly sexual activities. Love is good, love is from God and I believe it is right in his eyes. Nowhere in the Bible does it say men can't love men...read of Jonathan and David. What is wrong is sexual idolitry. If a gay person is called by God to the ministry we should all take that calling seriously and allow thath person to do as God has directed.

    by Jim Davidovich

    May 16, 2011

  20. The issue is simple, is there a higher standard required for leadership in the church. The answer is now NO. We are all sinners and all fall short, but leaders can now be actively sinning and not repentant. I wonder where they are leading us.

    by Bob Moors

    May 16, 2011

  21. Members have already started leaving our local church who believe the church should welcome sinners but offer repentance and counseling-not approval; and ministers should be holy and not mock this office. This approval of sin is a sin and we pray for the repentance and change from this wrong action that will cause churches to leave Pres. (USA).

    by Kent Amick

    May 16, 2011

  22. It is wrong to allow practicing & unrepentant homosexuals in positions of authority within the church. This is not a government organization. It is a private organization, with its own responsibility to the word of God. If this is your decision, then it is not God that has led you.

    by Mr Johnson

    May 16, 2011

  23. I do not understand how the words that are in the Bible that are so clear to me can be changed to accept sin in the church - sin is sin - God is holy - He loves each one of us, but He will never accept sin as being acceptable - he never has and he never will - we are not to follow the standards of this world - we are set apart to with His strength, with the mind of Christ not our own - to become more like Him - Holy My Church making this decision of compromise is devastating to me - what a choice to have to make - I will never understand how we got to this place

    by Trying to follow God's word

    May 15, 2011

  24. The reason that mainline Protestant denominations such as the Presbyterian and the Episcopal church are in decline whereas the evangelical ones continue to grow is exactly because of issues like ordination of homosexuals. People are hungry for the truth and want churches to take a stand. As believers, we are to impact the culture, not the other way around. We are to be "in the world" but not "of the world." By voting to affirm openly practicing homosexuals serving in positions of leadership this denomination will be torn apart. Hopefully The PCA will gladly absorb the individual churches who choose to vote against this perversion and remain faithful to scripture and not merely function as social clubs as so many of the individual churches have become in this denomination.

    by William

    May 15, 2011

  25. It is troublesome when the church cannot forsake the traditions on man in obediance of the commandments of God.

    by Mike

    May 13, 2011

  26. I don't understand why those who are in fundamental disagreement with some of the tenets of the PCUSA sought to change them so drastically. If you believe that members of the LGBT community should be allowed to be ordained that's fine (well, not fine but it's certainly your right as someone with free will to believe what you want). Why not just go join a denomination that already accepts that belief? Why do people have to keep watering down the Word of God to fit into the current social zeitgeist? I don't think it's a coincidence that, even as more conservative congregations are growing in America, more liberal ones are declining in membership. Who wants to be part of an organization that just blows with the wind? If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything.

    by Mark Griswold

    May 13, 2011

  27. It has become evident that the homosexual issue is going to continue to divide PCUSA until the congregations choose to leave. The crux of the matter seems to me the divide on whether or not you can be born homosexual...I believe that you cannot, that it becomes a choice, thus making it a moral issue. You can't be a little bit pregnant, you either are or you aren't. I have prayed long and hard on this issue, and I believe that if you lean toward being homosexual or lesbian, you must curtail your desires if you are to walk in the path of Jesus. While it's very true that Jesus welcomes anyone who believes in him, the same must said that he expects you to try as hard as humanly possible, even though will all know we fall far short. The major problem that I have is the vast number of Preachers that seem to be all for letting anyone do as they please. As earlier noted, the General Assembly has abdicated their authority on this key issue, mainly by letting the issue come up time and again for years in one form or another. If the GA doesn't wish to decide the matter, then why should any congregation continue to fund the GA? And don't give me the argument that congregations can "earmark" their fees to go to certain things on a National Level. That's just being naive. This will continue to divide the church until, like all things human, eventually destroy it. Be aware, no matter what the outcome.......GOD IS WATCHING.

    by Richard S. Merritt

    May 12, 2011

  28. I am also a former elder who is heartbroken at my beloved Church's abdication of its responsibility to uphold Biblical prohibitions against sexual sin, and to set reasonable conduct standards for its leadership. Whatever happened to the PC(USA), that fidelity and chastity have become outdated concepts, left behind in favor of a culturally-popular "anything goes" mentality? Have we learned nothing from the Catholic clergy sex scandals?! I am ashamed of the PC(USA) and appalled at Bolbach & Whitsett, and I cannot and will not continue to placidly support a Church that no longer appears to support scriptural standards. This, in my mind, is heresy.

    by Cradle Presbyterian

    May 11, 2011

  29. My understanding is that nFog would replace our current Form of Government, and the amendments made to that section of the BOO in our current voting cycle. Unless it is later amended, nFog maintains the wording of G-6.0106b. (See nFOG G-2.0104b).

    by Colin

    May 11, 2011

  30. If we amend the present form of government, and then throw it out and replace it with the nfog, what is the effect of the vote of 10-A

    by David Daniel

    May 11, 2011

  31. Colin, Jason,etal: Do you not understand the implications to those who do not support the changes in ordination standards? For some, it will not only be a theological nightmare but it will only be a matter of time till it becomes a legal nightmare. When an individual's rights take precedence over anyone's theological beliefs no matter how valid an argument is presented, the court may legally force one party to accept the other's standard of sexuality be that with multiple or homosexeual partners. If 10-A passes and it looks as though it will, how can anyone expect PCUSA to survive with that distinct eventuality on the horizon? While both sides to this issue can be wrong, one thing for sure is, they both cannot be right.

    by Bill Cashdollar

    May 10, 2011

  32. I am always confused by the pride exhibited by absolute statements about the interpretation of scripture. I do not pretend to understand the mind of God, and doubt anyone else really does either. I do know that throughout history our clumsy attempts at analyzing scripture have been used both positively and negatively to justify our own human beliefs. Slavery, the oppression of women, denial of technology, and other ideas were all fervently defended using scripture. While this seems ridiculous to us now, at the time people felt they were absolutely correct in their understanding and practice. Cultural identity often clouds judgement and we interpret things to mean what we want them to mean. I humbly suggest to those on both sides of the issue to consider the possibility that you may be wrong and to take an honest and non-judgemental look at the other side. It is amazing how this approach can clarify things, especially when it is done, as everything we do should be done, keeping in mind the greatest commandment. I trust the Holy Spirit to guide us as a collective people to do God's will, even if it conflicts with what we want God's will to be.

    by Galdor

    May 10, 2011

  33. D & D 2.0...Thank you. That is what I meant. However, I did not know how to defend my comment w/o being further interpreted as being offensive. I am greatly concerned with sexual ethics, with marital faithfulness and chasity in singleness. Face it...the causes of sexual strife in most relationships are due to lust and, in the words of C'67, "sexual anarchy". Sexual anarchy rears its ugly head in sexual abuse, exploitation of persons in pornography, prostitution, and having harmful expectations about our sexual selves and our spouses/partners. It has been difficult to address what should be an overall concern of sexual issues b/c wrestling with the GLBT orientation claims all of the attention. I read somewhere about how the writers of the white paper hope that all of us can discuss these concerns. I appreciate those folks, with much more clout than me, for suggesting that "both sides" could work together and address this. If we could be more honest and frank in discussing sexuality, the church would be a breathe of fresh air in our society. The wrong ideas about our worth and purpose and the bondage of sexual anarchy, prevent us as a culture from being who God, our Father, our Savior, and our guiding Holy Spirit intends for us to be.

    by Colin

    May 10, 2011

  34. I am in the exact same boat as Discouraged and Distraught and with the exact same timeframe. I read Colin's comments, and I did not take it the way some of you did (and perhaps not the way it was intended). Colin asked, "why wait...time to move forward." and if Discouraged and Distraught is like me, those were questions and decisions he/she has already proposed to him/herslef. Maybe Colin is just giving a suggestion that if you feel that strong about your decision then it does you no good to spiritually to hang around in a situation that causes you griefe and now is always the time to seek the best scriptural and spiritual guidance. Perhaps Colin wasn't saying "if you're going to be that way, then get out of our church because we don't want you."

    by D & D 2.0

    May 10, 2011

  35. In the Presbyterian world I would consider myself a moderate. I am a young Elder on my way to becoming a Minister of Word and Sacrament in the PCUSA. While I understand people's concern over 10A I will never understand why one would choose to leave the church over it. Jesus is and always will be the Head of the PCUSA. Leaving the Church only has the opposite effect that conservatives desire. I ask you to search your heart and ask yourself, is it your understanding of the Bible that is causing you to leave or your own pride? It is not as if the ordination standards will change who your pastor is as a person, so why does your call to serve Jesus Christ change? I was called to serve the PCUSA and that calling is for life no matter what we as fallen people do. I have faith in the people that will continue to examine and approve of candidates for ordination. It is a long process and gives ample time for both the church and the candidate to discern if the individual is truly called to Ministry.

    by Jason Myers

    May 10, 2011

  36. Someone needs to update this page!!!

    by Magdalena Garcia

    May 9, 2011

  37. Message to Colin: Your comment was uncalled for and unkind. I am in agreement with D'd &D's Biblical logic and feel his/her pain. I will however remain (for now) in the PCUSA, serving my term as an elder and work within my congregation and Presbytery to move the denomination as a whole back to where it should be. I take my encouragement from 1 Kings 19; believing that the Lord will pass by-and one day all this will seem as a dream. Blessings to all, no matter what side of the fence you may be standing on.

    by Lisa

    May 7, 2011

  38. just ot get something out of the way. Yes we are all sinners, but not all are predestined to repent.

    by Joao Soares - NJ

    May 6, 2011

  39. Message to Colin...why are you insulting that individual?

    by Observer

    May 3, 2011

  40. To Orval Schoen: You ask some important questions about membership and voting. Some denominations are "congregational." The members of a local church decide all matters for themselves. Other denominations are "episcopal." The denominational leadership makes decisions that all member churches are required to adhere to. The PC(USA) is "connectional." We seek a balance between pastors (who are members of the presbytery) and elders (who are members of the local church). Equal numbers of pastors and elders vote on all decisions at Presbytery and National levels. So a couple of elders from churches in the presbytery voted on these amendments at GA last year. Now at least one elder from each church has an opportunity to vote on the amendments at the Presbytery level. So, while individual congregations do not get to vote on the amendments, they participate in the voting at a presbytery level through the elder(s) commissioned to attend the meetings.

    by Graham Fowler

    May 3, 2011

  41. Dear Discouraged and Distraught, Why wait until December to leave? Sounds like it's already time for you to move forward.

    by Colin

    May 2, 2011

  42. In support of Jerry Hom and many others, who seem to be in the minority...I just cannot accept humans lowering the standards set by God. Yes, we are all sinners, but a key difference to me is that we are to stop, repent, and change direction toward His Ways through Jesus. What Presbyterians are doing is encouraging people to keep on sinning, going on contrary to natural law, and now actually setting leaders to reinforce this sin. God forgives, we pray and trust, but to flaunt your own desires above his laws, you are taking a huge risk. I have been an elder since the early 1980's and traditionally have supported this church, and raised my family. However, rather than "repent to the LGBT", I am not only going to give up my role as elder at the end of my term in December, 2011, my entire family is leaving the Presbyterian church. May God have mercy on us all...

    by Discouraged and distraught

    May 1, 2011

  43. God's grace is for everyone. However, when we accept it, we are called to leave behind any part of our lives which are contrary to his word. I have been a member of the Presbyterian church since 1957 and I am heartbroken to see the direction taken by so many of our congregations.

    by K.M. Araujo

    April 26, 2011

  44. I am also a lifelong member of a Biblical-based church, and I am disappointed that my Presbytery did not vote in favor of 10-A. Suggested reading to gain a true, complete understanding of the Biblical issues at hand: "Jesus, the Bible, and Homosexuality: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church" by Jack Rogers, paired with a New Oxford Annotated NRSV. God's grace is for everyone.

    by Carrie

    April 24, 2011

  45. With only 7 yes votes needed, out of 33 remaining presbyteries, it looks like 10A is on its way to being approved. As a member of a Biblical based presbyterian church, and an Elder for 8 years, I cannot remain a part of this great error in judgement.

    by Jerry Hom

    April 23, 2011

  46. When is the voting required to be completed?

    by Tom Hastie

    April 23, 2011

  47. While attending the Presbyterian church for sometime and not a member .Iwas surprised to find that the preachers are not members of their local church,Why not ? Also members of the church have no vote on any change regarding the greater church ,Why not ? The members are the ones paying the bills .

    by orval schoen

    April 22, 2011

  48. I think that the channel of communication will be from the Office of the General Assembly to the 173 presbyteries...the presbyteries are then to communicate to their congregations. You're wise to ask this question ahead of time...ask your presbytery how they will relay official info to your congregation.

    by Colin

    April 17, 2011

  49. So, can I assume from reading part 3 that G-6.0106b's wording has been changed to remove that living in the covenant of marriage between a man and a woman or in chastity in singleness to the newer version which muddies the water. So, I ask again, can a homoseual be ordained as a pastor with the Presbyterian Church USA? The lawyer-ease makes everything very complicated and difficult to understand.

    by Jill Patterson

    April 17, 2011

  50. A church member asked me the other day, if i do not have internet how will i know what changes are happening? And i did not have a good answer, how would it be reported to churches if these changes, if any happen? thanks

    by Sarah Bishop

    April 14, 2011

  51. Some sites are receiving unofficial vote tallies before the 'official' counts are submitted to the Office of the General Assembly.

    by Randy Hobson

    PC(USA) Staff

    April 11, 2011

  52. I do not understand why there is such a discrepancy between your voting tally and that of the Covenant Network of Presbyterians organization (http://www.covnetpres.org/amendment-10-a-vote-chart/). They currently have 78 for Ammendment 10A and 57 against (as of 4/9/2011). But your site has 68 for and 46 against (as of 3/30/2011). When is PCUSA.org going to update its count?

    by Bob Ley

    April 11, 2011

  53. Fran, Click on this page http://oga.pcusa.org/formofgovernment/ Scroll down the list of available documents...you will find two options for comparison charts. Hope this helps.

    by Carol

    April 8, 2011

  54. Is there something on-line and available to PCA(USA) members which compares current Book of Order to the nFOG (perhaps highlighting in red the changes being proposed). This would make it much easier for the average person to track/understand. Thanks so much.

    by Fran

    April 7, 2011

  55. Thank you for the added info!

    by Jess

    April 5, 2011

  56. Where can I find a voting schedule for the Presbyteries? When will the voting end?

    by Jay Veenis

    April 3, 2011

  57. I too, would appreciate having the actual text online. It should be readily available for all Presbyterians. I've spent 5 minutes searching the site, and can only find comments about it (10-A) not actual text.

    by Carol Wedell

    April 2, 2011

  58. Please clarify what is being tallied. "part 1, etc is too ambiguous for majority of PCUSA members.

    by pamela Reid

    April 1, 2011

  59. Why is there such a discrepancy from this tally and the vote tally on the Covenent website (which appears more up to date)? http://www.covnetpres.org/amendment-10-a-vote-chart/

    by Bob Ley

    March 30, 2011

  60. Why are total votes cast (pos+neg+no action) not the same for each question?

    by Bill Fitzpatrick

    March 30, 2011

  61. When will this be updated? Thanks!

    by Sharon Bowler

    March 29, 2011

  62. The covent network has more upsdated results:http://www.covnetpres.org/amendment-10-a-vote-chart/

    by Vernon Grinnell

    March 26, 2011

  63. Are you able to show the results of the presbytery votes by geograhical location on a map for the proposed amendments to the constitution and the Confession of Belhar? Thank you. Margaret

    by Margaret Heidger

    March 26, 2011

  64. Thanks for displaying this info! Is there anyway to add a description or title for each amendment in addition to the number? Thanks!

    by Jess

    March 24, 2011

  65. It would be helpful to have a brief blurb describing each of these and a link to the actual texts and further discussions.

    by Teresa Stricklen

    March 24, 2011

  66. Thank you!

    by John Stuart

    March 23, 2011

  67. Confession of Belhar can be found by following this link: http://www.pcusa.org/resource/belhar-confession/ I suggest you read it.

    by Cathy

    March 18, 2011

  68. Just post the tallies on this page instead of making visitors download them...that just smacks of computer incompetence and ecclesiastical bureaucracy

    by John Stuart

    March 18, 2011

  69. 'To all those asking why they can't see the results: They are listed within the document that you get when clicking on the red 'Download PDF' button just above this comment area.'

    by Randy Hobson

    PC(USA) Staff

    March 9, 2011

  70. Where are the tallies!!

    by Wayne Gillespie

    March 9, 2011

  71. So, I came to this page expecting to see "Voting Tallies". Where are they?

    by Mark Wheeler

    March 9, 2011

  72. Where can one go to ask questions about the amendments? Specifically, I have a question on 10e & 10f: the notes in Proposed Amendments to the Constitution - Part 3 of 3 state that if both are passed "the combined wording could be handled editorially", I would like to know what would be the final combined wording? It's not clear to me how they would merge since 10f mentions nothing about CLP's being entitled to voice and vote. Would it be included or excluded from the final combination?

    by Mark Dayton

    March 8, 2011

  73. I'm trying to find the actual TEXT of the various amendements being consider (Behar, 10-A)....any links/pointers would be greatly appreciated.

    by Dale Smith

    March 7, 2011

  74. What is the position of the Presbyterian Church USA regarding the ordination of homosexual clergy (homosexuals serving as pastors) and gay marriage?

    by Paul Leisure

    March 3, 2011

  75. To all those asking why they can't see the results: They are listed within the document that you get when clicking on the red 'Download PDF' button just above this comment area. And, yes Neal, we have to wait until votes are submitted to the office and we post them right away as they come. The other results out there are, we assume, sent from the voting table before they have been sent to us 'officially'.

    by randy hobson

    March 2, 2011

  76. As an active clergy member of the Presbytery of Lake Huron, I would like to know the present voting status related to the votes on the Form of Government. Where is this information being posted? If it is not being posted, what is the reasoning behind that decision? Thank you for your prompt reply. Rev. Karen- First Presbyterian Church, Beaverton, Michigan

    by Rev. Karen Blatt

    March 1, 2011

  77. Just a reminder for this string of thought: The Office of the General Assembly can only list the results submitted to it. Concern about the timeliness of results being posted needs to be directed at the Stated Clerk of the presbytery. The submission of the vote can only be hastened at that point.

    by Neal Lloyd

    February 21, 2011

  78. Why are the votes not listed?

    by Tom Erickson

    February 20, 2011

  79. With today's technology wouldn't it seem that the reporting from other organizations could be better coordinated. http://www.reclaimbiblicalteaching.org/Vote_results.pdf The quicker the results, the less speculation that people are trying to withhold information for personal bias.

    by Paul Nazarian

    February 17, 2011

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