How to be Presbyterian in a dysvangelical America

LOUISVILLE — The Rev. Alex Thornburg and the Rev. Ted V. Foote Jr., the authors of “Being Presbyterian in a Dysvangelical America: A Guide to Reclaiming the Good News of God’s Grace,” published last week by Westminster John Knox Press, appeared recently on “A Matter of Faith: A Presby Podcast.” Listen to their 68-minute conversation with hosts Simon Doong and the Rev. Lee Catoe here.

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Thornburg is pastor of Heartland Presbyterian Church in Clive, Iowa. Foote, himself a longtime pastor, teaches pastoral ministry and leadership at Austin Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Previous collaborations include “Being Disciples of Jesus in a Dot.Com World” and “Being Presbyterian in the Bible Belt.”

“You can believe that immigrants and refugees are dangerous. You can believe empathy is toxic and women are second-class citizens. You have the right to believe that,” Thornburg told the podcast hosts. “Just don’t call it Christian, because it’s not.”

Thornburg said “dysvangelical” is a term coined by Foote to describe “a voice that’s articulated and has a lot of political power,” used by people who are “defining what they understand ‘Christian’ to be. We wrote this book in many ways to push against that and what Presbyterians understand what it means to be faithful” and “not defined by this very loud public voice that’s got a lot of power these days.”

The ”gospel of grace is where we all have ultimate value,” Foote said. But some instead “want to turn away from the table with everyone else and go to their own small table and change the recipe.”

There’s no better good news than God’s grace, Thornburg said. “Ted argues that some have taken the good news and turned it into something that’s bad, and that’s mean-spirited,” Thornburg said. “They have turned the good news into something dysfunctional, distorted and dystopian.”

“They have taken the good news of the gospel and used it to harm folks,” Thornburg said. It’s like Superman and the Bizarro World from the 1950s, Thornburg said, a world where everything was topsy-turvy from the world of that era.

“We freely admit that even in our own tradition, the Presbyterian Reformed tradition, we have had had times in our history that have embraced dysvangelical beliefs,” Thornburg said. “We still see some of that in the church today.”

According to Foote, one tack the book takes is to “look at historical development to see how the gospel can come alive in different times and places.”

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“We’ve tried to locate people who were not the great men and women in history — everyday folks with something to say and it just wasn’t heard,” Foote said. “We don’t always get it right, but we want to trust that God’s Spirit in Christ, with love, moves us forward together to be the people God intends.”

“What the world needs — and we believe Presbyterians can offer this if we stay true to our tradition — is good news,” Thornburg said. “At the core of our Reformed Christian theology is grace — grace that embraces us in the midst of our brokenness, wherever we are.”

“Grace is our resistance,” Foote said. If Jesus were to hear the theory that empathy is toxic, he’d “cock his head, lower his eyebrows and drop his jaw.”

One thing Thornburg loves about the PC(USA) “is that it’s changed its mind,” he said. “It’s painful to have a revelation. Repentance means turning around and changing your mind. That’s what we celebrate, that we are always open to changing our mind.”

Among the examples Thornburg pointed out are historic ways some in the church treated African Americans, LGBTQ folks and “not recognizing women as full members of the church.” Fortunately, “God was a work to lead us” to where the church is now.

“I don’t want to rest on our laurels,” Foote said. “If we go through our [Presbyterian] family history, we have disagreed and people don’t come to the family reunions anymore.”

Our communities and our nation “needs a Presbyterian Church that stands up and says [dysvangelicalism] is wrong. This is not who God calls us to be,” Thornburg said. “While we’re imperfect and we sometimes show up late to the party, we have something to give the world — something to pronounce and proclaim that we think might make a difference in this moment.”

Thornburg said even small acts can make a difference, including marching in a protest, serving at a homeless shelter or collecting food for people who have been cut off from federal benefits. “We believe we have something to say to this moment in history,” Thornburg said, “and we’re encouraging the Presbyterian Church to do that.”

Thornburg credited Catoe and Doong’s consistent efforts to “raise some of these questions” with their podcast. “It’s a gift, a grace that reflects Christ and thoughtfulness and struggle,” Thornburg said. “That’s really important right now,” as are the Church’s stands on, for example, Israel-Palestine, on race and on care for Creation.

“We believe grace is good. We can’t get our hands on it, except to share it,” Foote said. “Remember when toilet paper was flying off the shelves during Covid? Grace will never have a shortage, because God is supplying it.”

Thornburg said the two authors have refined their elevator talk about their book to three words: “grace,” “gift,” and “gratitude.”

“Our job is to live in gratitude,” Thornburg said. “I believe that’s what the world needs, and it’s the good news reproclaimed.”

New editions of “A Matter of Faith: A Presby Podcast” are released every Thursday. Listen to previous episodes here.