221st General Assembly (2014) Voting Tallies

Proposed Amendments to the Constitution

Approved By The 221st General Assembly (2014)
Approval of Belhar requires 114 affirmative votes; all other amendments require 86 affirmative votes

06/22/15 2:19 p.m.

    Affirm. Neg. No Action
14-1 Confession of Belhar: Amending The Book of Confessions 144 25 2
14-A Renunciation of Jurisdiction: Amending G-2.0509 113 56 2
14-B.1 Final Assessment: Amending G-2.0607 166 4  1
14-B.2 Accommodations: Amending G-2.0610 165 5 1
14-C Child Protection Policy: Amending G-3.0106 170   1
14-D Minimum Composition of Presbytery: Amending G-3.0301 170    1
14-E Interreligious Stance: Amending G-5.0102 160  10  1
14-F Marriage: Amending W-4.9000 121 48  2
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  1. As a member of the PCUSA I have been at a total loss as to how the General Assembly can be leading us away from Scriptural truths. Perhaps Dr. Condit can explain to me how he concludes what he calls " a difficult decision has been made by the denomination" to move in a direction that is neither scriptural or in line with the teachings of Jesus. The rights mentioned by Dr. Condit are not the same as same sex marriage and do not conflict with the Bible. Christian faith is not defined as all inclusive, see Luke 12:49 where Jesus says that "I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled! 50) I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished! 51) Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; 52) for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; 53) they will be divided, father again st son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law." Yes, we are all sinners and we need to love the sinner and hate the sin. We do invite all who want to repent and follow Jesus to our church but not if there is no heart for the scripture or will to repent our sins.

    by Bruce Larson

    May 20, 2015

  2. I know that all of us within the PCUSA have struggled for many years in what the definition of marriage is within a Biblical sense. Over 30 years I have switched from being against recognizing same sex marriage within our denomination to embracing it today. As a denomination I feel that we have made the difficult decisions to support and fight for the abolition of slavery, women's rights and more broadly civil rights. As a denomination of inclusion I feel that the PCUSA has chosen to correct, moral and courageous path that Jesus laid for us over 2000 years ago.

    by Dr. Bradley W. Condit

    May 14, 2015

  3. A lot of the comments here reflect a similar notion: that the PCUSA is violating God's standards, flaunting the moral patterns of tradition, etc.. Perhaps - it's been know to happen. Yet, it's worth keeping in mind that similar charges were lodged against Jeremiah to name but one prophet who "departed" from the ancient traditions. And, of course, Jesus, who was charged with a similar "departure" from God's truth, God's tradition, and all things moral and right. I'm not saying who's right or wrong, but those who lament the recent change in marriage-defined, might do well to recall how their charges against the PCUSA echo the charges brought against Jeremiah and Jesus, too. Those who charged them were themselves utterly confident that they knew the "plain meaning" of Scripture, that they were well situated in the tradition and that change would be a violation of God's will.

    by Tom Eggebeen

    April 23, 2015

  4. I believe that people who support same sex marriage are trying to change the deeper meaning of scripture rather than trying to understand why God has called a man and a woman to live as one flesh. We are not called to change scripture but rather to understand it. I believe that the PCUSA has taken a stand that does not support the moral framework God given us. I am deeply disappointed in this ruling and believe it will greatly harm the PCUSA at a spiritual level which will not be recognized for some time.

    by Mary M. Holmes

    April 22, 2015

  5. In response to the previous posters comments I think that he/she, like the PCUSA is focused on church history and cultural acceptance over scriptural truth. Mounger discusses events that show the negative actions of the church and then summarizes that instead we should be "wonderfully inclusive as Jesus was". I disagree that Jesus was inclusive or intended for his church to be all inclusive and in fact Luke 12: 49-53 shows that Jesus was more exclusive than inclusive: "I came to cast fire upon the earth; and would that it were already kindled! 50) I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how I am constrained until it is accomplished! 51) Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; 52) for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; 53) they will be divided, father again st son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against her mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law."

    by Bruce Larson

    April 10, 2015

  6. Sadly, so many Christians, including Presbyterians, seem to lack any basic historic perspective. At one time, allegedly from biblical proof texts, church law forbade widowers to marry sisters of the deceased! Another issue: the extremely conservative PCA was founded largely because southern Presbyterians (PCUS), after nearly 2,000 years of virtual neglect of the divine gifts and callings of women, began to ordain them as full, talented, dedicated, collegial deacons & ruling & teaching elders--in alleged contradiction of St. Paul's supposed horror at women's speaking in worship, & with no coverings on their heads! (In the Deep South then the "fathers"--tan hey were ALL fathers, or at least male!--of the PCA also conveniently took advantage of white racial prejudice, claiming that staying in the PCUS might obligate a flock to have an N-word in the pulpit! Eventually the PCA finally made a most johnny-come-lately apology for its initial racism--in the 1980s, I think.) Once many Presbyterians held divorced people in suspicion. Especially divorced women, no matter the circumstances of their split, were viewed even by some in the very women's church circles as potential predators, piously citing Jesus' words against divorce in the Sermon on the Mount. But now even some of the most self-designated "evangelical" of flocks call to divine office divorced leaders, even pastors! The same is true now of GLBTs, who once were the convenient, bullied "lepers" of society--including so many unthinking congregations who continue seemingly to love jot-and-tittle Law far more than they do Gospel. If I must err--and as a human being I always, sadly, will err--I choose, like wonderfully inclusive Jesus Christ--to err on being more inclusive than on being close-minded exclusive.

    by Dwyn Mounger

    March 28, 2015

  7. Is Gods will to have a faithful few or an unfaithful many? I am completely at a loss to understand how PCUSA leadership can lead us away from scripture to chase cultural change.

    by Bruce Larson

    March 26, 2015

  8. I had started attending PC(USA) as a visitor currently because my daughter is gay. I found the church to be a Galatians 3:28 environment that fits our family better than where we were. I know other gay people who've been harmed by their churches, so much so that they left the faith. I am still appealing to them to return by showing that the PC(USA) offers them a place to be at peace to worship & with compassion for them. I see them as biologically not having a choice with orientation set in pregnancy like handedness. And there were others gay in my family line to enforce this understanding. I am not a member yet but am leaning toward it with the inclusiveness views where I visited.

    by Kay

    March 20, 2015

  9. We may have a new type of member within the Presbyterian church--"Cafeteria Presbyterians". They will accept those things that they believe in and reject those things that they do not believe in. What will this mean for the church?

    by robert h wright jr

    March 19, 2015

  10. I was so glad to hear that gay marriage has now been formally recognized by the Presbyterian Church USA. To me it is not a mater of following what some say the Bible states, such as gay unions as "what God does not bless." I believe that God blesses us all and accepts us all regardless of our preferences. Who are we on earth to judge others? Acceptance and tolerance allow growth and progress as spiritual human beings - isn't that quite miraculous?

    by Linda D.

    March 18, 2015

  11. The best thing that we can do is to get down on our knees and ask for God's foregiveness. This is why Jesus was sent into the world--To die for our sins.Have mercy on us God.

    by robert h wright jr

    March 10, 2015

  12. Not all young people, including my two grandsons, 30 and 32, do not subscribe to same sex marriages. I hope we are not misinterpreting the reason young people are leaving the denomination. We are headed in the wrong direction to bring this country back to what it should be. We need to be "bending our knees" and asking for divine intervention.

    by Creola V. Loyd

    March 10, 2015

  13. It's my understanding that the vote totals being reported are done only after the stated clerks of the presbyteries send them in. So, their totals are a little behind what we might be reading from other sources. Kind of like election returns.

    by Will Berger

    March 4, 2015

  14. With respect to Mr. Wright's comments, the issue before the Supreme Court is entirely consistent with the proposed amendment. A Supreme Court decision finding that it violates the U.S. Constitution would mean that the proposed amendment applies in all 50 states and territories, rather than in those states that currently allow same gender marriage. The issue before the Supreme Court is not whether anyone could be forced to participate in a same gender marriage - legally that is a completely different question, and compelling a teaching elder or session to permit something contrary to its beliefs would be unprecedented -- indeed, contrary to a huge number of legal hurdles.

    by Jim Wilson

    February 25, 2015

  15. It is anticipated that the Supreme Court may have something to say about same sex marriages sometime this year. Will the forthcoming Supreme Court decision in any way conflict with the proposed marriage amendment to the Book of Order? Could the Supreme Court "order" a local session to perform a same sex marriage on local church property? I wonder. This could become a classic church verses state case. Time will tell.

    by robert h wright jr

    February 24, 2015

  16. Is it possible for you guys to do a better job at keeping this tally current with dates letting us know when the published accounting is being made?

    by Richard T. Gillespie

    February 23, 2015

  17. Re. Mr. Blue and Mr. Robinson's comments: The OGA tally you see here is quite understandably confined to those votes that have been officially reported by the respective Stated Clerks of their presbyteries. Our friends at OGA do a fine job within those constraints. If you are looking for a more up-to-the-minute tally for Amendment 14-F (including results not yet officially sent to OGA), I encourage you to check out the Covenant Network of Presbyterians page: http://covnetpres.org/amendment-14-f-vote-chart/. We report all the information we receive as quickly as we can verify it. Blessings, Brian Ellison, executive director Covenant Network of Presbyterians

    by Brian Ellison

    February 23, 2015

  18. I would like to think that since this is an internet site you would keep the tally of votes on the amendments current to within a day or two. Also, it would be helpful if an "as of date" for the tally counts was included on the page providing the information. Respectfully submitted, Charles L. Blue, Sr. Elder, PCUSA

    by Charles L. Blue, Sr.

    February 19, 2015

  19. In 2008, I had the opportunity to attend the General Assembly meeting as a Ruling Elder from Pittsburgh Presbytery. I was amazed how the Book of Order amendment process works. Under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Teaching Elders and Ruling Elders come together at presbytery meetings to first debate and then vote upon various amendments to the Book of Confessions and the Book of Order. They take their roles seriously. The process really works..

    by Robert H Wright Jr

    October 17, 2014